Canada Files
Canada Files | Phil Fontaine
5/13/2025 | 28mVideo has Closed Captions
Former Chief of the Assembly of First Nations. Spoke out publicly about abusive residential schools.
Phil Fontaine is the former Chief of the Assembly of First Nations. He was the first to speak out publicly about the abuse he suffered in the notorious residential schools and orchestrated apologies from both the Prime Minister of Canada and the Pope.
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Canada Files is a local public television program presented by BTPM PBS
Canada Files
Canada Files | Phil Fontaine
5/13/2025 | 28mVideo has Closed Captions
Phil Fontaine is the former Chief of the Assembly of First Nations. He was the first to speak out publicly about the abuse he suffered in the notorious residential schools and orchestrated apologies from both the Prime Minister of Canada and the Pope.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorship♪ >> Valerie: Welcome to Canada Files .
I'm Valerie Pringle.
My guest today is Phil Fontaine.
The most significant person when it comes to Indigenous rights in Canada.
He was the first person to speak out publicly about the abuse he suffered in the notorious Indian residential schools.
He led the class-action for restitution.
He helped create the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
And he orchestrated apologies from the Prime Minister and the Pope.
His work is not done.
>> Valerie: Hi Phil.
>> Phil: Hello.
>> Are you astonished at what you've been able to accomplish?
I mean really getting the Canadian government to acknowledge that they were trying to assimilate Indigenous people.
And that was the policy.
>> Astonished?
Yes.
Blessed?
Absolutely.
I've been given so much.
I've had so many opportunities to do some work that's of importance and is meaningful to so many.
I would never claim that I have done all of this on my own.
I mean I've been one of many people that were involved in so many of the important issues and challenges that have been placed before our people.
And I've been extremely lucky.
I've been at the right place at the right time.
And I would never claim it was by design on my part.
I'm not a great planner or thinker, in that regard.
>> But you're persistent.
>> Well, I have been persistent.
And persistence, in my case, has paid off.
In ways that were unimaginable as far as I'm concerned.
Given where I'm from.
And how things have actually ruled out and evolved.
To something that is good and meaningful for the First Nation community and indeed for the country.
>> Was it a question of just the truth coming out and the power of the truth?
>> Well, I hadn't really figured that out.
When I first spoke about my own experiences in residential schools, for example.
But it was something that I thought needed to be said.
And I felt the sense that I needed to share this story.
That I knew was the story of so many.
And to do it in a very public way.
But I would never suggest that I knew what the fall-out or outcome would be.
>> When you went public.
When you decided to do a national television interview.
And you were the first person to talk about being a residential school survivor.
And about the abuse-- physical, emotional, sexual.
I remember that so vividly.
But that was my awakening.
>> Mmmmuhh.
>> But...people didn't want to hear it.
>> And people didn't want to talk about it.
>> That's true.
>> But why did you do it?
>> I'll tell you one of the reasons I did what I did.
I was at a conference-- a chiefs assembly actually, in Whitehorse.
And the gathering was about the future.
And what the future ought to look like.
You know, these were discussions that were about big issues for the First Nation community.
I thought that one of the biggest issues was the residential school experience.
And what had befallen our people that were part of that experience.
And so what-- it was my turn to speak.
I spoke about that particular issue.
And I argued that we could never ever be clear about the future when we had this dark cloud over our community.
And that we had to deal with this to make this dark cloud go away.
The dark cloud was the residential school experience.
When I finished my presentation, I came off the stage.
I saw two women chiefs crying.
And I knew I had touched a chord there.
What followed was an attempt by a couple of chiefs that chastised me and told me that this kind of talk wasn't for this conference.
We had other more important matters to talk about.
I didn't say anything.
I listened.
Eventually it came out that the chief himself had been a victim.
He had been abused.
And it was the kind of sensitive personal issue that was not to be talked about in such a public forum.
Then I knew that I was on the right track, in terms of this issue.
And how it ought to be talked about.
And not just in private but in a very public way.
>> And the reaction was huge!
And your sense--even you saying I am a survivor, just that definition of yourself.
>> Well initially, I considered myself a victim.
And that's how we-- I talked about it.
Then people started talking about themselves as survivors of a terrible experience, an ordeal.
And that became the reference.
We'd moved away from this notion of being victims to a much more positive realm of describing ourselves as survivors.
Which is more appropriate, I agree.
>> Now you're Ojibwe, grew up north of Winnipeg.
You were sent to school at what, six?
>> I was six my first day.
I turned seven the first month I was in school.
>> Away from your parents.
Your dad died right after that.
>> Two months after.
>> Valerie: You couldn't even grieve his death really.
>> Well, I...you know, didn't know what that meant.
And how it would affect me when our father died in February.
February 19, 1952.
I'd entered the residential school in September 1951.
So I didn't appreciate the significance of that at that moment.
>> Ten years you spent in residential schools.
>> Two schools, ten years.
Yes, mixed, a very mixed experience obviously.
I had good times.
Sad times.
The most difficult part of... my residential school experience was being away from my mother, my family.
That was the toughest thing for me to contend with.
>> Because your mom's a real role model to you.
After your dad died, your mom was everything.
>> She was a tough woman.
A fighter.
And I learned so much from her.
She was elected to band council, June 1952.
Just months after her father had died.
First Indian woman, that's what we were then--Indians, to be elected to a band council.
That was because women were finally allowed to hold public office.
1950...after the last major revisions to the Indian Act.
>> You became band chief.
You were young, 28.
But you said still at that time, you know, full of anger at the government, white people, drunk.
Messed up from residential school.
How did you manage to turn yourself around?
>> Well, a lot of support from my family.
And people were anxious to see me succeed beyond what had already been part of my young life.
And booze was a huge struggle.
I was not a happy camper.
Then wife, Janet, told me one day in Winnipeg.
She looked me straight in the eyes.
She said, "Phillip, your family or you can go keep drinking."
That's when I quit boozing.
So it's been, gosh, 35 years of sobriety.
So that made a difference.
But that didn't erase all the memories.
It didn't make me--cause me to emerge from this talking to, as someone who was finally free of all the demons in their life.
But it was--it made it much easier for me to make my way into the future.
>> Who and how did you work out, with others, this is, we want to get compensation for our experiences in the residential schools.
Move in that direction and achieve that.
And say what we need is a Truth and Reconciliation Commission .
You know, we need to achieve that.
What did you think was going to happen When you set upon that?
>> It was like the moment when we decided we were going to take control over our education system on the reserve, Sagkeeng.
When we decided to establish the first child welfare agency controlled by our community-- by First Nation community.
Our community in this case.
We knew that was of critical importance to the future of our people.
And that kind of thinking-- you know, being able to figure that out.
When I first went public with the residential school experience, my experience, I knew that we were going to have to do this for posterity.
This experience... or should I say, experiences have to be recorded as part of our history.
There had to be an apology from the church and government.
Those were two critical elements of going forward with this story.
We didn't...initially didn't talk about money.
>> That came later.
>> The class-action suit.
>> The Truth and Reconciliation Commission , we knew and understood that it would last and would be the most important feature of the settlement agreement that we negotiated.
Far more important than any money that government was going to pay out.
And we were talking about $6 billion of that.
>> Do you think Canadians care?
I mean, they've heard.
They hear about graves by residential schools.
They hear your testimony and other survivors.
Do you get a sense that there has been a change in the country in terms of peoples' attitudes?
>> It's changing--the attitudes.
Canadians are changing.
The pivotal moment was Kamloops --the 215 unmarked graves.
The eyes of the world then turned on Canada.
Canadians were also very much tuned into this.
I think it was an embarrassing moment for the country.
How could this be?
Canada is supposed one of the best, if not the best, country in the world.
And we would have something like this?
In our own backyard.
And no-one knew?
In fact, the chapter on Indigenous history was never part of the Canadian history taught Canadians.
About Canada, their own country.
It was a dark chapter, a tragic chapter.
This moment then drove the importance ...of forcing Canadians to come to know themselves through this process.
So this has become so much more than what it was.
An effort on the part of the survivors to deal-- to force Canadians to deal with our issues.
It's become an Canadian issue.
It's a Canadian story.
>> You put it--you said, "They tried to transform us" "But we will transform Canada."
>> And I think we have!
We've succeeded, to some extent.
One of the big challenges we've had, is to make sure that the people that come to Canada and see this as their refuge.
A place where they can live a full life.
That transformation they are looking for must include an understanding of Indigenous peoples.
The history of Indigenous peoples.
So we have to write that history in a way that exposes in a much more positive way, the history of Indigenous peoples.
>> Well, that's one of your missions.
To say, you know, Canada we say, oh, it's founded by the English and French.
The foundational story.
>> That's one of the most significant challenges ahead of us now.
Is to set aside this big lie-- the distortion of Canadian history.
That Canada was founded by two peoples-- two founding nations, the French and the English.
Indigenous peoples were absent at the table when the Fathers of Confederation were figuring out how Canada would be set up.
You know, its systems of government, its legal system, the languages, the culture.
We will not be able to complete the circle, if I can describe our history together.
Unless and until Indigenous peoples are part of that circle.
In this case, the circle becomes three pillars-- French, English and the First Peoples.
>> I was reading about you and somebody said, "Imagine a kid who lives through the worst of the residential schools then stands in the House of Commons and has the Prime Minister read an apology."
That's you.
>> As we said when we had the apology on June 11th, 2008, a moment for the ages.
It certainly was a moment for the ages.
I was certainly proud of being in the House of Commons when Prime Minister Harper delivered the apology on behalf of all Canadians to Indigenous peoples.
Because that was where the decision to establish residential schools was taken.
And the apology was taking place right in that House.
That was absolutely magnificent.
>> It was very important to you that the Pope give his apology in Canada.
Why was that?
>> That was the most appropriate thing that the Holy Father and the Catholic Church could have done.
Was to come to our land and deliver a full apology.
Because this is where the wrongs were committed.
>> And apologies matter?
>> Absolutely.
Apologies are essential.
To any attempt to bring about reconciliation.
You can never have reconciliation without an apology-- someone saying, "I'm sorry."
And then the people that are at the receiving end of an apology should be able to say I accept the apology.
I believe that it's sincere and meaningful.
That will allow us to walk this path of reconciliation together.
Institutions like the Catholic church-- they said when the Pope said, "I'm sorry", at Maskwacîs.
Then when people were saying you have to repudiate or rescind the Doctrine of Discovery , he said, "Well, we'll think about that very carefully and seriously when we return to Rome."
And they did exactly that.
Then when he was on the--- travelling home to Rome on the plane, he described what our people had experienced as genocide .
He spoke words that went beyond what the former Chief Justice of Canada, Beverley McLachlin, said when she said cultural genocide in the same way that, the then Prime Minister, Paul Martin, said.
What our people had experienced was cultural genocide.
This one was even more significant.
Because it has legal implications that go beyond cultural genocide.
>> Tell me about your grandchildren.
I mean, you adore them very publicly.
But their lives, their opportunities?
So different from yours?
>> They're beautiful, absolutely beautiful.
Loving children.
They're all experiencing life in a way that's so fundamentally different from my own experience.
>> What do they make of you?
>> Well, I think that they think I'm pretty funny.
We laugh a lot.
>> Do they have any idea how significant you are to their community?
>> No, we never... >> Their people.
>> No, we never really talk about that.
Maybe Maya, my daughter, and Mike.
But my family, my large extended family, I think have a real appreciation of the work that we've done.
And how that work has resulted in some fundamental changes.
To the way Canadians look at our people and communities.
There's been a real and fundamental shift in our way of life, our thinking and the approach that we're taking to our future.
>> The final question we always ask is, what does being Canadian mean to you?
>> ...I'm a proud Canadian.
But I'm also a very proud Ojibwe.
I'm a First Nation person.
So while I'm proud to be Canadian, I'm extremely proud to be a First Nation person.
When there's a sporting event--international sporting event, I cheer for Canada.
Absolutely!
So I might come across as being ambivalent about who I believe I am but that's not so.
I'm pretty clear about who I am and what I represent in my life as far as where I make my home and my living.
I come from First Nation community, also live in an urban community.
So I live in two worlds, so to speak, proudly.
>> Well, you've made Canada a better place.
Thank you.
>> Thank you for our conversation.
>> Thank you, Phil.
And we'll be back next week with another episode of Canada Files.
♪
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