>>> HELLO, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & CO.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

RUSSIA ESCALATES AS TRUMP STEPS BACK.

I ASKED FORMER WHITE HOUSE RUSSIA EXPERT FIONA HILL WHETHER VLADIMIR PUTIN WILL OUTPLAY HIM.

THEN -- >> YOU HAVE MANY OPTIONS TO HERE.

>> PUT YOUR SOUL ON YOUR HAND AND WALK.

THE WRENCHING FILM A YEAR-LONG VIDEO CHAT WITH JAN ONE YOUNG WOMAN IN GAZA.

THE DIRECTOR JOINS ME ON THE TRAGIC ENDING.

PLUS -- >> THERE IS A LOT OF FEAR THAT VICTIMS HAVE, FEAR OF GOING TO POLICE, FEAR OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> AS THE SEAN P DIDDY COMBS TRAIL CONTINUES, WE REVISIT MY CONVERSATION WITH WOMEN'S RIGHTS ATTORNEY GLORIA ALLRED AND ADVOCATES FOR VICTIMS OF INTIMATE PARTNER CRIMES.

>>> THE POINT AND PURPOSE OF IT IS TO PROVIDE AS POSITIVE A STUDENT ATHLETE EXPERIENCE.

>> MICHEL MARTIN ASKS OF THE FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR, CHARLIE BAKER, ABOUT THE FUTURE OF COLLEGE SPORTS AND HOW TO REGULATE IT.

>> AMANPOUR & CO IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS .

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AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM .

LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION.

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AND MY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU, THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

RUSSIA RAMPS UP ITS ATTACKS ON UKRAINE IN AN AIR AND LAND ASSAULT THE KREMLIN CLAIMS IT IS READY WITH A PIECE PLAN FOR CEASE-FIRE TALKS IN TURKEY NEXT WEEK BUT PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY SAYS THEY HAVE NOT SEEN ANY DRAFT PLAN, CALLING IT ANOTHER RUSSIAN DECEPTION.

MEANTIME, PRESIDENT TRUMP IS SAID TO HAVE GIVEN VLADIMIR PUTIN A TWO-WEEK WINDOW TO SHOW A GENUINE INTENTION TO END THE WAR.

PERHAPS ACTIONS, THOUGH, SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

OVERNIGHT, THE UKRAINIAN AIR FORCE SAYS 90 DRONES AND 2 BALLISTIC MISSILES WERE LAUNCHED BY MOSCOW, STRIKING LESS THAN 3 MILES FROM A NATO MEMBER, ROMANIA.

WILL TRUMP ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING TO STOP THAT A PUTIN OR IS HE BACKING AWAY?

FIONA HILL WAS PRESIDENT TRUMP'S MOST SENIOR RUSSIA ADVISOR DURING HIS FIRST TERM AND HAS BEEN IN THE ROOM WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN HIMSELF.

SHE IS JOINING ME NOW FROM MARYLAND.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM, FIONA HILL.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

>> WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT PROCESS.

I JUST LED INTO THIS NOT ONLY WITH THE FACTS OF THE ATTACKS FROM MOSCOW BUT THE BUSINESS OF MAYBE CEASE-FIRE TALKS AND WHAT ONE IS SAYING ABOUT THE OTHER END OF THE REST OF IT AND WHAT TRUMP IS SAYING, NOW THE LATEST IS ALLEGEDLY A TWO WEEK WINDOW.

ARE WE MISSING THE FOREST FOR THE TREES, IS THERE ANY PROCESS AS FAR AS YOU CAN SEE, RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, THERE IS A PROCESS BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE AROUND TRUMP, CLEARLY PEOPLE GOING BACKWARDS AND FORWARDS AND ENGAGING WITH THEIR COUNTERPARTS.

ULTIMATELY, THIS IS REALLY ABOUT TRUMP AND HIS OWN STYLE OF NEGOTIATION.

IT IS ABOUT HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH PUTIN.

HE TALKS ABOUT THIS ALL THE TIME.

HE IS CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT HAVING KNOWN PUTIN FOR A LONG TIME, THEIR FRIENDSHIP , SUCH AS IT IS AND HE HAS FAITH THAT PUTIN WILL COME THROUGH FOR HIM BECAUSE PUTIN RESPECT HIM.

MOST RECENTLY, TRUMP HAS SHOWN A LITTLE BIT OF CONCERN THAT PUTIN IS NOT GOING IN THE DIRECTION HE THOUGHT HE WOULD, CALLING HIM CRAZY OR DOING CRAZY THINGS BECAUSE HE IS FINALLY REALIZING THAT PERHAPS PUTIN IS DOING THINGS FOR HIMSELF AND NOT FOR TRUMP AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM THAT WE ARE FACING HERE .

THIS IS VERY PERSONALIZED AND THE PROCESS IS ALL ABOUT THE INTERACTIONS ON THE PERSONAL LEVEL BETWEEN TRUMP AND VLADIMIR PUTIN MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

>> RUSSIA CLEARLY BELIEVES IT IS WINNING.

PUTIN APPARENTLY TOLD TRUMP ON THE LAST PHONE CALL THEY HAD AND TRUMP RELATE BACK TO THE EUROPEANS, THAT IS WHY PUTIN WASN'T GOING FOR A CEASE-FIRE.

IT MATCHES WHAT A SENIOR RUSSIAN OFFICIAL HAS TOLD ME IN THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS, THAT THEY BELIEVE THEY ARE WINNING AND THE BELIEF THEY HAVE, EVEN NOW, THE BAKKEN FROM HOME.

YOU KNOW BETTER THAN I DO THAT THE SYSTEM IS TO PAY RECRUITS, TO PAY THEM BONUSES, TO, YOU KNOW, NOT ENRICHED BUT TO PAY ESSENTIALLY THEIR FAMILIES.

THERE IS MUCH MORE INCENTIVE FOR THE FAMILY'S, AT LEAST, NOT TO COMPLAIN AND FOR THOSE PEOPLE TO GO TO THE FRONT.

>> THAT IS ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON.

THERE IS NO INCENTIVE FOR PUTIN RIGHT NOW TO BACK AWAY FROM THIS WAR AND EVERY INCENTIVE AS YOU JUST LAID OUT TO CONTINUE IT AND THERE IS NOTHING THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP CAN OFFER HIM.

HE CAN'T BASICALLY GIVE PUTIN ON A SILVER PLATTER BASICALLY A CAPITULATED SURRENDER FROM UKRAINE.

HE IS NOT GOING TO GIVE HIM VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY HIS HEAD, FOR EXAMPLE.

I MEAN, THIS IS THE DILEMMA.

BASICALLY THOUGHT THAT BY THE FORCE OF HIS OWN PERSONALITY, THE BASIS OF THE RELATIONSHIP HE HAS CRAFTED FOR HIMSELF WITH PUTIN, SHORT PUTIN THINKS ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP IN THE SAME WAY, HE THOUGHT AS WE ALL HEARD THAT THIS WOULD BE OVER IN 24 HOURS, 100 DAYS, THAT THIS WOULD BE VERY EASY.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS THE REALIZATION SITTING IN THAT PUTIN HAS OTHER THINGS AND PUTIN IS WILLING TO SHED AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF BLOOD, TO FIGHT DEFINITELY TO THE LAST UKRAINIAN AND PERHAPS THE SECOND TO LAST RUSSIAN BECAUSE HE BETS HE HAS MORE MANPOWER, MORE STAYING POWER, AND MORE WILLPOWER THAN THE UKRAINIANS, EUROPEANS, AND CERTAINLY THE AND THE UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENT TRUMP >> SO, WHERE DO YOU THINK HE IS GOING TO GO?

DO YOU AGREE WITH PUTIN'S ASSESSMENT THAT THEY ARE WINNING?

YES, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE BATTLEFIELD ON ANY GIVEN DAY AND THERE IS A FOOT HERE AND A KILOMETER HERE.

BUT, IN THE BIG PICTURE, HOW DO YOU ASSESS THE RUSSIAN WAR GAMES NOW?

>> IN THE BIG PICTURE, PUTIN ISN'T WINNING.

IF YOU LOOK AT IT FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, OF OF COURSE NOT.

AN ENORMOUS SLAUGHTER OF PEOPLE, WHICH IS WHAT MAKES PRESIDENT TRUMP SO INCREDULOUS ABOUT ALL OF THIS.

WE ARE APPROACHING 1 MILLION CASUALTIES ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE.

DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE A HUGE POPULATION, I MEAN, THIS IS GOING TO HAVE MULTI GENERATIONAL EFFECTS.

THE CASUALTIES ARE NOT JUST PEOPLE KILLED BUT PEOPLE SERIOUSLY WOUNDED AND OBVIOUSLY TRAUMATIZED BY THIS WAR.

HE HAS MADE SOME GAINS IN TERMS OF TERRITORY BUT HE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO AFFECTED THE COMPLETE SURRENDER OF UKRAINE.

HE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER.

HE HAS CREATED THE LARGEST WAR IN EUROPE SINCE WORLD WAR II.

HE HAS COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED THE RUSSIAN ECONOMY INTO A MILITARIZED WAR ECONOMY.

HE HAS DONE AN AWFUL LOT OF DAMAGE.

BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, FROM PUTIN'S PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, HE HAS ACHIEVED A GREAT DEAL IN TERMS OF ACTUALLY RATTLING EUROPE AND BASICALLY HAVING KIND OF AN IMPACT AND PROVEN, FOR HIM, THAT HE IS A COUNTRY TO BE RECKONED WITH.

AGAIN, IF YOU GO ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE LEDGER, WE HAVE SEEN SWEDEN AND FINLAND JOIN NATO AND WE HAVE SEEN EUROPE STEP UP IN RESPONSE TO WHAT THE RUSSIANS HAVE DONE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOW BEYOND ANY KIND OF ENGAGEMENT AND REPROACH AND NEGOTIATION THAT HE IS HAVING WITH TRUMP.

HE HAS COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED, I WOULD SAY, NOT JUST EUROPEAN SECURITY BUT GLOBAL AFFAIRS WHAT HE HAS DONE.

OVER THE LONG-TERM, THAT MAY NOT BE A VICTORY AND IS LIKELY NOT TO BE A VICTORY FOR RUSSIA.

>> LET'S NARROW THE FOCUS AGAIN.

THE PROCESS I STARTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT, THE SO-CALLED CEASE- FIRE TALKS, WOULD CERTAINLY THE LAST ROUND DIDN'T ACHIEVE ANYTHING EXCEPT GET ANOTHER PRISONER RELEASE.

THAT WAS GREAT, PRISONER EXCHANGE.

DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS REALLY ANY SERIOUS ATTEMPT TO GET A CEASE-FIRE?

WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS HAVE THE AMERICANS PUT ENOUGH PRESSURE ON PUTIN AND CAN THE EUROPEANS PICK UP THE SLACK?

>> I THINK WHAT HAS TO BE DONE, AND THE UKRAINIANS AND EVERYBODY WOULD CERTAINLY SAY THIS IS TO MAKE SURE THAT PUTIN CAN'T MOVE ANY FURTHER .

PUT UP A VERY ROBUST DEFENSE OF THE LINE.

THAT IS WHAT UKRAINE HAS BEEN TRYING TO DO ALL THE WAY ALONG.

BASICALLY TO DENY PUTIN THE ABILITY TO MOVE FORWARD.

THEY HAVE ALREADY DENIED HIM THE CAPITULATION AND COMPLETE SURRENDER OF UKRAINE.

WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT UP.

WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS RESTORE DETERRENCE, TO SHOW FROM PUTIN'S PERSPECTIVE IT IS GOING TO BE VERY LIMITED GAINS OR NO GAINS AT ALL MOVING FORWARD AND THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE A FORMIDABLE RESPONSE FROM EUROPE, NOT JUST FROM THE UNITED STATES.

LOOK, THERE IS A LOT TO DO THERE BUT IT IS SIGNALING TO PUTIN THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET ANY FURTHER.

BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN, HOWEVER, THAT HE'S GOING TO STOP BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO STOP HIM, PREVENT HIM FROM BEING ABLE TO MOVE FURTHER AND THAT IS GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF HARD WORK.

THAT IS WHERE THE RUB IS THAT FROM WHAT WE ARE SEEING WITH THE UNITED STATES.

IF TRUMP HIMSELF HAS GOT FRUSTRATED ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THIS IS SO PERSONAL FOR HIM AND HE STEPS BACK, THAT IS ANOTHER WIN FOR PUTIN BECAUSE PSYCHOLOGICALLY, THAT REALLY MAKES IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR THE EUROPEANS AND FOR ANYBODY ELSE TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT THEY ARE WITHHOLDING AND DENYING AND WITHSTANDING FROM THE RUSSIAN PERSPECTIVE.

IT IS TOUGH, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE EASY.

TO BE HONEST, I THINK TRUMP HAS MADE THINGS A LOT WORSE BY HYPER PERSONALIZING ALL OF THIS AND MAKING IT ABOUT HIM AND PUTIN OR HIM AND VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY AND HOW HE FEELS ABOUT BOTH OF THEM.

JUST BEING SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT THE ISSUES ARE, WHICH IS THE FUTURE OF EUROPEAN SECURITY AND FRANKLY GLOBAL SECURITY AS WELL AND THE ABILITY TO DETER AGGRESSORS AT ANY STATE, NOT JUST RUSSIA, THAT WANTS TO TAKE THE TERRITORY OF THEIR NEIGHBORS.

>> YOU WERE IN THE ROOM WITH BOTH TRUMP AND PUTIN DURING TRUMP'S FIRST TERM .

NOW TRUMP IS PERSONALIZED SO MUCH THE RELATIONSHIP WITH XI JINPING OVER THE TRADE AND TARIFFS, THE WHOLE THING WITH BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, HE SAID THE SAME THING, I WILL END THIS IN THIS AMOUNT OF DAYS AND IT HAS TO STOP AND ALL THE REST OF IT.

AT THE SAME TIME, HE SEEMS TO BE, IT IS ALMOST COUNTERINTUITIVE BECAUSE HE SEEMS TO BE MAYBE RAISING THE IDEA OF LAYING THE GROUNDWORK FOR RUSSIA TO HAVE ITS SPHERE OF INFLUENCE, FOR XI JINPING TO HAVE THIS FEAR AND INFLUENCE, FOR TRUMP HIMSELF TO HAVE HIS SPEAR OF INFLUENCE.

DO YOU THINK THESE OTHERS, BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, XI JINPING, THAT I PUT IN AND THAT LOT, BASICALLY GIVING THE FIELD TO BENJAMIN NETANYAU AND THE EXTREMISTS IN HIS GOVERNMENT IN THE MIDDLE EAST, DO YOU THINK THEY ARE RELEASING SOMETHING ABOUT TRUMP AND DO YOU THINK, AS SOME HAVE SUGGESTED, THAT THEY ARE CALLING HIS BLUFF?

>> LOOK, ABSOLUTELY THEY ARE.

THEY ARE REALIZING THAT, FOR HIM, IT IS ULTIMATELY SPHERES OF INFLUENCE ARE THE ULTIMATE REAL ESTATE DEAL.

IF THEY CAN PERSUADE EMBASSIES YOURS, BE IT CANADA AND GREENLAND AND ALL THE REST OF THESE EXPENSIVE IDEAS THAT HE HAS PUT OUT AND THIS IS OURS AND WE CAN MAKE ALL THESE KINDS OF DEALS, BE IT ON NUCLEAR ISSUES, BECAUSE HE DOES WANT TO MAKE A DEAL WITH ALL THESE DIFFERENT PLAYERS ON NUCLEAR AND NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION, BUSINESS DEALS, AND BASICALLY WE CAN MOVE FORWARD ON THAT BASIS, OF COURSE THAT IS A GREAT THING FOR THEM.

I DO WANT TO MAKE SOME CAUTION HERE BECAUSE, AT THE SAME TIME THAT THEY ARE CALLING HIS BLUFF ON TARIFFS AND SEEING HIM PULL BACK AFTER THE MAXIMAL PRESSURE, BECAUSE THEY REALIZE THAT HE DOESN'T WANT WARS, HE WANTS TO END ALL OF THESE CONFLICTS, HE IS ULTIMATELY LOT OF RISK FOR THEM PERSONALLY.

THEY HAVE TO BE CONSTANTLY MANAGING HIM IN THAT PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP AND THEY HAVE TO BE VIGILANT ABOUT THAT AS WELL.

PROBABLY FOR THE CHINESE AND FOR PRESIDENT XI JINPING, THAT IS THE MOST DIFFICULT BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LARGER SYSTEM AROUND THEM, IT IS NOT JUST ALL ABOUT PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS.

YOU KNOW, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO RELY ON HIM TO MAKE A DEAL OR THE KIND OF DEAL THAT THEY WANT BECAUSE HE WILL BE CONSTANTLY CHANGING THE TERMS AND CONSTANTLY GOING FOR SOMETHING PERHAPS THAT THEY WEREN'T EXPECTING.

SO, THERE IS DEGREES OF DANGER FOR THEM IN THAT AS WELL, IT IS NOT ALWAYS THAT STRAIGHTFORWARD.

HE IS GENUINELY UNPREDICTABLE BECAUSE HE IS REALLY MARCHING TO HIS OWN TO RENT TO HIS OWN IDEAS AND EVEN THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM, THEY ARE INTERPRETING HIM BUT THEY ARE NOT SPEAKING FOR HIM.

THE ONLY PERSON WHO SPEAKS FOR TRUMP IS TRUMP.

>> AND, WHAT ABOUT THAN THE DANGER FOR TRUMP, THE DANGER FOR AMERICA?

THERE WILL BE MANY PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT HIS POLICIES, AMERICANS, IN OTHER WORDS, WHO VOTED FOR HIM AND GENUINELY BELIEVE THAT WHAT HE'S DOING IS TO INCREASE THE SECURITY FOR AMERICA, WHETHER IT IS THE TRADE BID OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.

DOES THIS, IN YOUR ESTIMATION, DO THAT?

DOES THIS HALLWAY THAT HE IS OPERATING INCREASE THE SECURITY AND PROSPERITY OF THE UNITED STATES?

>> WELL, LOOK, I MEAN THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT HE IS LOOKING AT FROM HIS DEFINITION OF SECURITY THAT ULTIMATELY THERE COULD BE SOME INCREASES, THE TALK OF THIS HIGH LEVEL INTEGRATED BALLISTIC MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM, THE GOLDEN DOME, THE STRATEGIC DEFENSE INITIATIVE, WHICH HAS BEEN AN IDEA FOR DECADES NOW BUT WILL TAKE QUITE A BIT OF TIME TO DEVELOP.

HE HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE SECURITY OF THE SOUTHERN BORDER, HE HAS DONE A LOT THAT SATISFIES THE DEMANDS OF THE BASE AND FOR MANY OTHER PEOPLE ABOUT IMMIGRATION.

WE MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH THE WAY HE HAS ON IT BUT THERE IS CERTAINLY A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR SOME OF THE ACTIONS HE HAS TAKEN.

OVERALL SECURITY, THE UNITED STATES IS PROSPERING AND HAS BEEN MORE SECURE BECAUSE OF ITS RELATIONSHIPS WITH ITS ALLIES.

IT HAS BEEN MORE SECURE BECAUSE IT HAS PLAYED A LEADERSHIP ROLE IN GLOBAL AFFAIRS.

IT IS THE COUNTRY THAT SHARED THE INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM AND TRUMP IS STEPPING BACK FROM ALL OF THAT INTO A SPHERE OF INFLUENCE SYSTEM WHERE YOU ARE MAKING DEALS WITH COUNTERPARTS IN A HYPERCOMPETITIVE AND PERSONALIZED SYSTEM, WHICH IS NOT A SYSTEM IN WHICH YOU ARE LIKELY TO BE MORE SECURE AND IN WHICH YOU ARE LIKELY TO BE MORE PROSPEROUS.

THE OTHER THING HE IS DOING IS REDUCING THE CAPACITY OF THE UNITED STATES TO BE ABLE TO ADAPT TO CHALLENGES THAT COME.

I MEAN, THIS IS A RETROGRADE, IS LOOKING BACK INTO A PAST APPROACH THAT HE IS ADAPTING TO ALL OF THIS, THE TERRORISTS, THE SECURITY, TRYING TO TAKE BACK THE UNITED STATES TO A TIME IN WHICH THE UNITED STATES WAS KIND OF A FORTRESS, A KIND OF AUTOCRACY, AN IDEA THAT HE IS CONCEPTUALIZING CLOSING THE PLACE DOWN.

THE UNITED STATES HAS ALWAYS BEEN ITS BEST WHEN IT HAS BEEN OUT THERE LEADING IN A DIPLOMATIC WAY, NOT PULLING BACK AND BASICALLY MOVING FROM A PLACE OF ISOLATION.

I WORRY GREATLY THAT THE UNITED STATES IS SQUANDERING ITS LEADERSHIP ROLE AND ULTIMATELY WON'T BE PROSPEROUS OF THE POSSIBILITY FOR PEOPLE TO STUDY IN THE UNITED STATES, ATTACKING HIGHER EDUCATION, DISMANTLING THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WITHOUT A CLEAR PLAN, ALTHOUGH SOME PEOPLE HAVE A PLAN OF WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE, BUT YOU ARE REDUCING CAPACITY, YOUR CAPACITY TO WITHSTAND FUTURE CHALLENGES AND I DON'T THINK THE UNITED STATES IS GOING TO BE RESILIENT AS IT WAS IN THE PAST BECAUSE WE ARE MOVING AWAY FROM ALL OF THOSE INSTITUTIONAL ARRANGEMENTS THAT ARE MEANT TO PUT THE UNITED STATES ON A MORE SOLID FOUNDATION.

THIS IS A COUNTRY OF 330+ MILLION PEOPLE, NOT JUST ONE PERSON AND IT SHOULD BE MOVING TO THE WHIMS OF WHAT THAT ONE PERSON, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A COUNTRY THAT IS THERE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE, NOT JUST ONE PERSON AND THE TEAM OF PEOPLE AROUND THEM.

>> CAN I JUST ASK YOU AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU CAN ANSWER THIS IN A COMPACT WAY BUT YOU WERE IN THE ROOM AND HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT RECENTLY, YOU WITNESSED FIRSTHAND TRUMP'S FEAR OF NUCLEAR WAR WITH RUSSIA.

THIS IS, OBAMA HAS WORRIED ABOUT THAT, BIDEN HAS WORRIED ABOUT THAT AND THAT SEEMS TO HAVE REALLY SORT OF HEMMED THEM IN OVER UKRAINE.

EVEN NOT PUTTING SANCTIONS ON IN A WAY THAT SOME ARE SUGGESTING THEY SHOULD RATCHET UP THE SANCTIONS.

EXPLAIN THAT AND, IS IT RATIONAL?

>> OF COURSE IT IS RATIONAL.

FOR EVERYBODY TO WORRY ABOUT THIS, PARTICULARLY PEOPLE OF THAT GENERATION.

I THAT GENERATION, AS YOU ARE AS WELL, PEOPLE WHO, IN THE CASE OF BIDEN AND TRUMP, WORSHIPED VERY MUCH BY THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS IN OUR CASE, BY THE 1980s AND THE STANDOFF BETWEEN THE SOVIET UNION AND THE UNITED STATES AT THE HEIGHT OF THE COLD WAR.

THERE IS A RATIONAL AND WELL- FOUNDED FEAR OF A NUCLEAR EXCHANGE.

WHAT PUTIN HAS DONE VERY EFFECTIVELY IS PLAY WITH THE IDEA OF A TACTICAL NUCLEAR USE, IN THE CASE OF UKRAINE IN 2022.

WE ARE ALL AWARE OF THAT.

ALSO, THE NUCLEAR SABER RATTLING.

HE IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT HAS THE MEDICARE THERE HAS BEEN NO STRATEGIC CHANGE OTHER THAN PUTIN'S WILLINGNESS TO PUSH THAT ENVELOPE.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR TO PUTIN, WHICH WAS BEING MADE IN THE WAKE OF 2022 WHEN HE THREATENED TO USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN UKRAINE, THAT THERE WILL BE VERY SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES.

WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS DIFFERENTLY AND BE MORE ROBUST IN OUR APPROACH TO BASICALLY THE IMPORTANCE OF MAKING IT CLEAR TO PUTIN THAT USING A NUCLEAR WEAPON JUST WILL NOT WORK.

>> REALLY, REALLY INTERESTING AND FASCINATING PERSPECTIVE, FIONA HILL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR EXPERIENCE.

>>> NEXT, TO GAZA, WHICH THE U.N. IS DESCRIBING AS "THE HUNGRIEST REGION ON EARTH."

STARVING AND DESPERATE RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN SWARMING THE NEW CONTROVERSIAL AID SITES, WHICH HAVE BEEN BACKED BY ISRAEL AND THE U.S.

THE HEALTH MINISTRY SAYS 11 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED AND DOZENS MORE INJURED JUST TRYING TO REACH THE CRUCIAL AIDE THIS WEEK.

THERE IS MUCH THAT IS TOTALLY UNCLEAR ABOUT CURRENT CEASE- FIRE PLANS BEING FLOATED.

MEANTIME, ACCORDING TO OFFICIALS IN GAZA, THE NUMBER OF PALESTINIANS KILLED HAS REACHED MORE THAN 54,000 AND ISRAEL KEEPS UP THE BOMBING.

ONE SUCH VICTIM WAS 25-YEAR-OLD FATIMA HASSOUNA.

SHE IS THE SUBJECT OF THE HEART- WRENCHING DOCUMENTARY , "PUT YOUR SOUL ON YOUR HAND AND WALK".

IT IS MADE BY THE IRANIAN DIRECTOR, SEPIDEH FARSI .

THE FILM BEARS WITNESS TO THE SADNESS AND THE HORROR OF HER DAILY LIFE IN GAZA.

ONE DAY AFTER THE MOVIE WAS SELECTED FOR SCREENING AT THE CANNES FILM FESTIVAL, FATIMA HASSOUNA, HER PREGNANT SISTER, AND SEVERAL FAMILY MEMBERS WERE KILLED BY AN ISRAELI MISSILE STRIKE ON HER HOME.

FILMMAKER SEPIDEH FARSI IS JOINING ME NOW FROM PARIS.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> HI.

>> THERE IS JUST SO MUCH THAT IS SURROUNDING WHAT ESSENTIALLY IS A TWO-HOUR CONVERSATION BETWEEN YOU AND FATIMA HASSOUNA OVER A TIME OF ABOUT A YEAR.

WHEN WE START THIS CONVERSATION, YOU SAY THAT YOU WISH YOU HAD BEEN ABLE TO GO INTO GAZA.

YOU TRIED TO BUT IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE.

AS WE ALL KNOW, THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT WILL NOT LET INDEPENDENT JOURNALISTS IN.

YOU DECIDED TO TALK IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

AT THE BEGINNING, WE SEE THIS OPTIMISTIC, RESILIENT YOUNG WOMAN A WHOLE YEAR AGO.

WERE YOU SURPRISED ABOUT HER DEMEANOR, EVEN UNDER APARTMENT SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS INTO THE WAR?

>> I WAS SURPRISED AT THE BEGINNING AND GRADUALLY I LEARNED THAT PART OF THIS AMAZING SMILE SHE HAD A AFTER DANE WHEN WE WERE TALKING, DESPITE ALL THE HARDSHIP SHE WAS GOING THROUGH, WAS DUE TO HER RESILIENCE AND ANOTHER PART WAS THIS PARTY.

THE FACE SHE WANTED ME TO SEE WHEN WE WERE TOGETHER.

AT THE MOMENT, SHE WOULD SEND ME ALL THE MESSAGES OR TEXT MESSAGES THAT SHOWED MORE DESPAIR BUT WHEN WE WERE FACE TO FACE, SOMEHOW I GUESS THAT HELPED ALSO TO BE, HELPED HER TO BE UPBEAT BUT SHE WAS SO AMAZINGLY RADIANT WHEN WE TALK TO EVERY TIME.

I GUESS IT WAS PART OF THE MAGIC OF THE THING AND HER MAGIC.

>> IT IS REALLY EXTRAORDINARY BECAUSE I DON'T THINK I HAVE EVER SEEN A FILM THAT IS BASICALLY A CONVERSATION AND NOT JUST ANY CONVERSATION, IT IS YOU WITH YOUR iPHONE, HER WITH HER I GUESS I PHONE AND IT IS JUST YOUR FACES, MOSTLY.

THERE ARE SOME IMAGES THAT SHE HAS TAKEN OF GAZA.

WAS IT NECESSITY BEING THE MOTHER OF INVENTION OR DID YOU JUST DECIDE THAT THAT WAS THE WAY YOU WERE GOING TO HAVE THIS RELATIONSHIP?

>> PART OF IT WAS THE FACT THAT I COULD NOT GET INTO GAZA PHYSICALLY, PERSONALLY.

THAT STARTED IT.

I WANTED TO BE THERE, I NEEDED TO GO, I NEEDED TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE IT KEPT ME FROM SLEEPING, THE IMAGES I WAS SEEING AND THE NARRATIVE FROM THE PALESTINIAN POINT OF VIEW, MISSING IN THE MEDIA NARRATIVE.

AND, I REALLY NEEDED THAT.

WHEN I COULDN'T AND WHEN I MET HER, I IMMEDIATELY GATHERED, IT WAS INSTANT THAT SHE WAS GOING TO BE THE CENTER OF THE FILM.

AND, IT FELT LIKE THE MOST NATURAL WAY TO DO IT.

IT WAS OUT OF NECESSITY, YES, BUT I COULD HAVE DONE IT IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

I COULD HAVE DONE IT WITH A CAMERA, WITH COMPUTER SHOTS.

IT JUST FELT NATURAL TO BE AT THE SAME LEVEL, WITH THE SIMPLEST WAY.

I'M IRANIAN, I HAVE MADE FILMS WITH ANY POSSIBLE MEANS THAT I COULD PRIOR, ALSO WITH ANOTHER MOBILE WITH PERMISSION.

THIS TIME, IT FELT REALLY RIGHT TO REALLY FOCUS ON HER FACE AND JUST TO BE AS CLOSE.

I DON'T KNOW, IT FELT CLOSER TO HER.

>> AND INCREDIBLY COMPELLING.

YOU COULDN'T TEAR YOUR EYES AWAY, OBVIOUSLY, AND THEREFORE IT WAS REALLY COMPELLING.

WE SAW IN THE PROGRESSION OF THE FILM HER INCREASING DESPAIR, INCLUDING OVER HUNGER.

I DO ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY A SHORT EXCERPT ABOUT THAT.

>> YOU SEE MY MIND IS VERY, I HAVE NO FOCUS BECAUSE I HAVE NO HEALTHY FOOD OR GOOD FOOD, EVEN.

I FEEL THAT I CAN'T EVEN STAND UP, YOU KNOW.

I CAN'T TALK, EVEN.

EVERY DAY, I TOLD MY MOM I WANT A CHICKEN.

I WISH IF WE HAD JUST CHICKEN BECAUSE WE DON'T EAT FOR NINE MONTHS.

>> IT IS REALLY AWFUL AND WE ARE SEEING THIS LAYOUT ON A BIG SCALE RIGHT NOW, AGAIN, AND THERE IS A LOT OF DENIAL BY MANY IN THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

THEY SAY THERE IS NO STARVATION BUT YOU CAN SEE WHAT IS GOING ON AND PEOPLE ARE ABSOLUTELY DESPERATE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YES.

>> WHAT REACTION HAVE YOU HAD TO THAT ASPECT OF THE FILM?

>> IT IS MUCH WORSE THAN WHEN I WAS TALKING TO HER, NOW.

IT IS LIKE, WHAT TO SAY?

COME ON, WE JUST GET OUT OF OUR HOUSES, WE GO TO THE SUPERMARKET, WE BUY ANYTHING THAT WE WISH, EVEN WITH LITTLE MONEY.

WE CAN GET WHATEVER WE WANT.

IT IS UNIMAGINABLE.

IT IS HARD TO INTEGRATE FOR US.

I'M REPEATING IT.

IT MIGHT SEEM REDUNDANT.

SOMEBODY NOT EATING NOT OUT OF CHOICE OF BEING VEGETARIAN BUT NOT HAVING ACCESS TO CHICKEN, TO MEET, TO MILK, TWO FRUITS.

ONE HER MOTHER WOKE UP AFTER THE INJURY, SHE IS THE ONLY SURVIVING PERSON FROM THE FAMILY AFTER THE ATTACK, SHE JUST ASKED FOR AN APPLE AFTER THREE DAYS.

THERE WERE NO APPLES IN GAZA.

THEY COULDN'T FIND AN APPLE.

I SAID SHOULD I SEND SOME MONEY?

THEY SAID IT IS NOT A PROBLEM OF MONEY.

THERE ARE NO APPLES IN GAZA.

HOW DO YOU DESCRIBE THE DEGREE OF THIS?

>> THAT IS VERY POIGNANT.

I REMEMBER SOMEONE IN THE SEEDS OF SYRIA AVERILL TELLING ME THE SAME, THEY RISKED THEIR LIVES TO GET AN APPLE.

IT IS A A YOU MENTIONED THE APPLE.

I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS.

FOR WHATEVER REASON, WHEN I STARTED TO WATCH THE FILM, I DID NOT KNOW THAT SEPIDEH , THAT FATIMA AND MUCH OF HER FAMILY HAD BEEN KILLED AND I WATCHED THE WHOLE THING ON THE EDGE OF MY SEAT, WONDERING WHAT, OR IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE A DINOUEMENT AND IT GAVE ME A VERY INTERESTING VISION WHILE I WAS ACTUALLY WATCHING.

SHE WAS, YOU WANTED TO TRY TO GET HER OUT AND TAKE HER TO CANNES FOR THE FILM FESTIVAL, WHICH HAD SELECTED YOUR FILM AS THE OPENING.

WHAT DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

THAT IS A STATEMENT OF PUTTING THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION IN GAZA AND THE STORY OF ONE WOMAN RIGHT FRONT AND CENTER.

>> I MEAN, YOU KNOW, BEFORE, AS I WAS COMING TO THE STUDIO TO BE WITH YOU, TO MEET YOU, I WAS READING THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAD DIED IN GAZA TODAY.

THERE IS A LIST OF NAMES.

ONE WHOLE FAMILY.

I WAS READING ONE BY ONE.

I CAN NAME YOU FATIMA HIS FAMILY MEMBERS AND I KNEW THEM PERSONALLY , THOUGH THROUGH VIDEO BUT IT MAKES SUCH A DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU KNOW THEM ONE BY ONE, YOU KNOW THEIR AGES, YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DO.

I KNOW HER BROTHER WAS A SLEEPWALKER, HE WAS 10.

THE OTHER ONE, 15.

HE WOULD COLLECT WOULD APPEAR TO THE OTHER ONE, 20, THE ONE WHO WAS CURIOUS AND WANTED TO SEE ME.

AND, THE PREGNANT SISTER.

I KNEW THEM ONE BY ONE.

IT MAKES SUCH A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU KNOW PEOPLE AND YOU LOSE THEM, YOU KNOW?

WE WERE NOT FAMILY BUT WE WERE ALMOST FAMILY.

IT WAS LIKE I'M SAYING THAT TO SAY THAT THIS DIFFERENCE THAT THE WORLD IS SHOWING TO THESE PEOPLE TO THEIR DEATH IS INHUMAN.

IT IS NOT NORMAL.

IT IS GOING TO STAY IN OUR HUMANITY FOREVER TO WATCH THIS HAPPENING AND NOT TO DO ANYTHING.

PRETENDING THAT IT IS NOT THERE.

>> YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT LONGER BUT I'M GOING TO READ ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SHE SAID. "

IF I DIE, I WANT A LOUD DEATH.

I DON'T WANT TO JUST BE BREAKING NEWS OR A NUMBER IN A GROUP.

I WANT A DEATH THAT THE WORLD WILL HEAR, AND IMPACT THAT WILL REMAIN THROUGH TIME AND A TIMELESS IMAGE THAT CANNOT BE BURIED BY TIME OR PLACE."

I THINK, REALLY, JUST TO WRAP UP, I THINK YOUR FILM GAVE HER THAT, THAT LOUDNESS, THAT VOICE.

>> WHEN I WATCH THE FILM NOW, I HAVE A FEELING THAT AUSSIE HAS WRITTEN AND ALL SHE SENT TO ME AND SAID TO ME ONCE, IN A WAY, A PREMONITION, UNCONSCIOUSLY, KNOWLEDGE OF HER, YES, PREMONITION, EXACTLY, OF HER KNOWING THAT SHE WAS GOING TO GO BUT YET SHE HAD SO MUCH LOVE FOR LIFE.

SHE WAS ENGAGED AND WAS GOING TO GET MARRIED AND SHE WANTED TO HAVE CHILDREN.

MANY THINGS.

SHE WANTED TO.

THIS HAS TO STOP.

THIS REALLY HAS TO STOP.

>> YES WELL -- >> THAT IS ALL I CAN SAY.

>> TELLING THESE HUMAN STORIES ARE VITAL.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.

>>> NOW, THE SEAN DIDDY COMBS RACKETEERING AND TRAFFICKING TRIAL IS IN ITS THIRD WEEK.

THE TRIAL IS DRAWING INTENSE MEDIA SCRUTINY.

AT THE HEART OF IT, SHOCKING ALLEGATIONS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST HIS INTIMATE PARTNERS.

COMBS DENIES ALL THE CHARGES.

WORLDWIDE, ONE IN THREE WOMEN HAVE EXPERIENCED SOME FORM OF PHYSICAL SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

IT IS A SUBJECT WE NEED TO KEEP FOCUSING ON.

I WANT TO REVISIT MY CONVERSATION WITH GLORIA ALLRED, THE RENOWNED WOMEN'S RIGHTS ATTORNEY AND SURVIVORS AND ADVOCATES, LEILA VALLEY AND APRIL HERNANDEZ CASTILLE.

WE SPOKE LAST MAY ONCE AGAIN A OBTAINED THE 2016 DOLS THE RUBBER ATTACKING KATHY VENTURA, WHO WAS THAT HIS GIRLFRIEND, IN A HOTEL HALLWAY, WHICH IS NOW BEING USED AS EVIDENCE IN THE CASE.

I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU, LAYLA, IF YOU DON'T MIND, TO MAYBE TELL US WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE WAS, WHAT LED YOU TO BECOME AN ADVOCATE, DID YOU GET ANY SUFFICIENT HELP FROM EITHER THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OR THERAPY OR THE LIKE?

>> WHAT LED ME TO DOING MY WORK IS VERY MUCH LIKE GLORIA SAYS.

A LOT OF TIMES, WE FOCUS ON THE PERPETRATOR, WE BECOME UPSET WITH THE PATHOLOGY OF WHY THEY PERPETRATE AND WHY THEY DO THIS AND WE STOP FOCUSING ON THE VICTIMS AND SURVIVORS THEMSELVES.

WE BECOME STATISTICS AND OUR IDENTITIES ARE LOST AND WE ARE ANONYMOUS.

WHAT I FOUND WAS IN MY PERPETRATOR, WHAT IT WAS ALL SAID AND DONE AND THE DUST WAS SETTLED AND I WAS PHYSICALLY SAFE AND WASN'T AT RISK OF THE ENVIRONMENT, THE IMMEDIATE ENVIRONMENT, I KIND OF LOOKED AROUND AND I THOUGHT WHAT DO I DO NOW, WHERE DO I GO NOW, WHO DO I TURN TO NOW?

THERE WAS JUST NOTHING AND IT WASN'T EVEN AT THE SUPPORT WAS LACKING IN QUALITY, IT JUST DIDN'T EXIST AT ALL AND IT WAS VERY MUCH A MOMENT WHERE I THOUGHT I WAS DESPERATE TO FIND WOMEN SOMEWHERE WHO WERE JUST LIKE ME WHO HAD EXPERIENCE, WHICH IS WHY I TURNED TO SOCIAL MEDIA AND STARTED SHARING STORIES ON BEHALF OF THE WOMEN IN MY COMMUNITY.

OVERNIGHT, A COMMUNITY OF SURVIVORS FORMED AND WAS INDICATIVE OF THE DESPERATE NEED TO HAVE THE SAFE SPACE WHERE WOMEN COULD COME FORWARD AND SHARE THEIR STORIES.

>> AS WE CALL IT, IT IS CALLED INTIMATE, WHAT IS IT CALLED, INTIMATE PARTNER VIOLENCE, RIGHT.

WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU, IF YOU DON'T MIND?

>> WHAT I EXPERIENCED WAS HIS TRANSLATION, IT WAS A DIVERSE AMOUNT OF VIOLENCE, FROM PUSHING AND SHOVING TO STRENGTH RELATION TO BEING THREATENED THROUGH A GLASS DOOR.

I HAVE SCARS ON MY ARMS TO THIS DAY.

WE HAVE THE STUFF THAT REALLY ENABLES THE ABUSE EVEN MORE, WHICH IS THE EMOTIONAL AND MENTAL ABUSE, THE ECONOMIC ABUSE, THE GAS LIGHTING, THE TRAUMA BONDING.

THERE WAS A BIG ARRAY OF THE ABUSE THAT I SUFFERED.

>> LET ME TALK TO YOU, LET ME TURN TO YOU, APRIL, WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU AND, MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE STATISTICS, AS WE HAVE SHOWN IN THE UNITED STATES, SO THAT WOMEN OF COLOR, BLACK WOMEN AND WOMEN OF COLOR SUFFER DISPROPORTIONATELY ACROSS THE BOARD FROM THE VIOLENCE, FROM DEATH, EVEN BEING BELIEVED AND BEING ABLE TO PROSECUTE CASES AND PROSECUTE THE ALLEGED PERPETRATORS.

>> I WAS ABUSED FROM THE AGE OF 16 TO ABOUT 19 1/2.

I WAS PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY ABUSED TO THE POINT WHERE MY ABUSER NEARLY TOOK MY LIFE AND THEN I BEGAN TO HAVE SUFFER FROM SUICIDAL IDEATIONS.

IT WASN'T UNTIL THAT MOMENT WHERE I DIDN'T WANT TO WAKE UP ANYMORE BECAUSE OF THE SHAME AND PAIN THAT I FELT, WHERE I REALIZED AT THAT MOMENT THAT I HAVE TO LEAVE.

I FOUND THE COURAGE TO FINALLY SAY THAT I AM DONE, IT IS ENOUGH.

I MADE A DECISION TO LEAVE AND ALSO TO LIVE MY LIFE AND MAKE THE CHOICE THAT I WOULD USE IT.

I WAS ALSO IN THE MOVIE "FREEDOM WRITERS" WITH HILARY SWANK AND IT SHOWS THE POWER OF OUR STORIES AND THAT IS WHEN I BEGAN TO UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF THE STORY OF A SURVIVOR.

FOR SOMEONE WHO IS ABLE TO LEAVE AND TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND FIND LOVE, I HAVE BEEN MARRIED TO MY HUSBAND FOR 23 YEARS, AND TRULY THAT HAS BEEN SO POWERFUL BECAUSE AS A VICTIM, NOT ONLY DO YOU STRUGGLE WITH LOVING YOURSELF BUT YOU WONDER AM I ABLE TO LOVE?

AM I EVER ABLE TO TRUST?

I HAVE BEEN ON THIS JOURNEY OF WORKING AND ADVOCATING, ESPECIALLY WORKING WITH TEENAGERS.

>> THAT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT TO MAKE, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO, I ASSUME, WANT TO THINK THAT THE ONLY STORY IS THE STORY OF A VICTIM.

WERE YOU BELIEVED, APRIL, WHEN YOU STARTED TO TRY TO GET THE KIND THAT HE?

>> WHEN I WAS BEING ABUSED, I WAS A TEENAGER AND SOME I DIDN'T CARE SHARE MY STORY.

NO ONE KNEW ABOUT MY ABUSE, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, NOT EVEN MY PARENTS.

IT TOOK ME ABOUT 10 YEARS TO FIND THE COURAGE TO FINALLY SHARE MY STORY.

ONCE I STARTED DOING THAT, I WAS ABLE TO RECEIVE SO MUCH HELP, REALLY, AND UNDERSTANDING HOW I WAS ABLE TO FALL INTO THAT KIND OF SITUATION.

SO, THE SUPPORT, I WAS ABLE TO BECOME EDUCATED.

NOW I AM A FACILITATOR AND I GIVE WORKSHOPS AND REALLY WORKING WITH POWERFUL AND AMAZING ORGANIZATIONS IN NEW YORK CITY BECAUSE EDUCATION WAS KEY.

EDUCATION AND AWARENESS AND PREVENTION, IT REALLY IS A WAY TO DO OUR BEST TO PREVENT FROM DOMESTIC VIOLENCE TO CONTINUE HAPPENING.

>> GLORIA ALLRED, APRIL IS MAKING THE LEGITIMATE POINT THAT IT IS EDUCATION, AWARENESS, TAKE THE VICTIM SERIOUSLY.

FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, WE THOUGHT MAYBE THAT SINCE HARVEY WEINSTEIN WAS CONVICTED AND SENT TO JAIL, SINCE #METOO, SINCE SO MUCH ACCOUNTABILITY WAS HAD AFTER #METOO, THAT SOMEHOW THIS PLAYING FIELD, IF YOU LIKE, HAD BEEN LEVELED, AT LEAST STARTING TO BE LEVELED.

DO YOU SEE THAT IN THE COURT SYSTEM, IN YOUR PRACTICE?

>> I'M STILL DEALING WITH MANY, MANY VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN.

ONE OF THE KEY QUESTIONS IS NOW WHY DON'T WOMEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

WHY DO THEY CONTINUE TO BE VICTIMIZED?

WELL, OFTEN, THEY DON'T KNOW THEIR RIGHTS AND WHAT THEY NEED TO DO IS NOT BE ISOLATED, WHICH IS WHAT ALMOST EVERY BACHELOR WANTS, SEPARATE THE VICTIM FROM HER FAMILY AND FRIENDS, SUPPORT GROUPS, AND ISOLATE THEM AND MAKE THEM DEPENDENT ON THE DATA WERE.

REACH OUT, FOR EXAMPLE, TO AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR AREA, WHO HELPS VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE, AND LEARN YOUR RIGHTS.

YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT JUST IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

THERE IS A LOT OF FEAR THAT VICTIMS HAVE, FEAR OF GOING TO THE POLICE, FEAR OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, FEAR THAT THE BATTERER WILL RETALIATE AGAINST THEM IF THEY DO SOMETHING.

BUT, THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS NOT THE ONLY SYSTEM THAT CAN HELP.

THE CIVIL JUSTICE SYSTEM, GOING TO A CIVIL ATTORNEY MY YOU KNOW, DOING, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT CASSIE VENTURA DID, WHICH WAS FILE A LAWSUIT AND GET A RESULT .

SOMETIMES RIGHT AWAY, SOMETIMES IT TAKES A LOT LONGER .

OR, TO DO A CONFIDENTIAL SETTLEMENT WITH THE BATTERER WITHOUT A LAWSUIT.

WE DO THEM ALL THE TIME.

I DID WHEN YESTERDAY.

SO, THE POINT IS, THERE ARE MANY OPTIONS THAT VICTIMS ARE NOT AWARE OF AND THIS CAN BE A TEACHING MOMENT FOR THE BATTERER, THAT HE LITERALLY HAS TO PAY THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS WRONGDOING, OF HIS CRIMINAL ACTS, AND SOMETIMES IT IS CIVIL AND CRIMINAL, SOMETIMES IT IS JUST CIVIL, SOMETIMES IT IS JUST CRIMINAL.

REACH OUT, FIND OUT WHAT YOU CAN DO, AND BECOME EMPOWERED IN THAT JOURNEY.

AS SOME OF YOUR GUESTS SAID, WHEN THEY FINALLY GET SUPPORT GROUPS, THAT IS A MOMENT WHERE THEY START TO BE EMPOWERED, TO BE STRONGER, AND TO WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, AND TO MOVE ON WITH THEIR LIVES.

I AM VERY PROUD OF THESE VICTIMS, THAT THEY ARE SHARING THEIR STORIES AND REACHING OUT AND HELPING OTHERS WHO HAVE BEEN VICTIMIZED AS WELL.

>>> NOW, THERE IS BIG MONEY IN U.S. COLLEGE SPORTS, AS EVERYONE KNOWS.

IN THE ERA OF NAME, IMAGE, AND LIKENESS, SOME OF THE TOP ATHLETES CAN EARN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS EVERY YEAR.

FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER, THOUGH, A NEW AGREEMENT CALLED THE HOUSE SUPPLEMENT, WILL ALLOW FOR SCHOOLS TO PAY PLAYERS DIRECTLY.

CHARLIE BAKER, THE FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR, NOW PRESIDENT OF THE NCAA, SAYS IT IS A WIN FOR STUDENT ATHLETES AND HE IS JOINING MICHEL MARTIN TO EXPLAIN WHY AND WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THEIR FUTURE.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

CHARLIE BAKER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> IT IS NICE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> OF COURSE, EVERYBODY HAS HEARD OF THE NCAA BUT TO SET THE TABLE FOR US, I DON'T THINK EVERYBODY KNOWS WHAT THE NCAA IS.

AS BRIEFLY AS YOU CAN, IT WAS AN ORGANIZATION FOUNDED OVER A CENTURY AGO, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF IT?

>> THE POINT AND PURPOSE OF IT IS TO PROVIDE AS POSITIVE A STUDENT ATHLETES EXPERIENCE AS IT POSSIBLY CAN ON BEHALF OF ABOUT 1100 SCHOOLS AND ABOUT 510,000 STUDENT ATHLETES ACROSS 3 DIVISIONS.

THE BEST WAY TO THINK ABOUT THE DIVISIONS ARE DIVISION I ARE TYPICALLY THE BIGGER SCHOOLS.

DIVISION II SCHOOLS THAT ARE A LITTLE SMALLER THAN DIVISION I AND DIVISION III TEND TO BE SCHOOLS THAT WE THINK OF AS SMALLER SCHOOLS, DON'T TYPICALLY DO ATHLETIC SCHOLARSHIPS, MOSTLY DO THEIR SCHOLARSHIPS BASED ON FINANCIAL OR ACADEMIC ELIGIBILITY.

HONESTLY, AS THE FATHER OF TWO DIVISION III ATHLETES AND AS A DIVISION I ATHLETE MYSELF AND SOMEONE WHO KNOWS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO PLAYED IN DIVISION II, THEY ALL HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY AND THEY MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE AND THEY ARE SPREAD ACROSS ALL 50 STATES.

>> YOU ARE A FARMER GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS, TWO TERM GOVERNOR, YOU RAN A HEALTH CARE COMPANY, THE TYPICAL TRAJECTORY FOR A GOVERNOR WOULD BE LIKE YOU GO TO THE SENATE, MAYBE YOU RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

SO, WHY DID YOU WANT TO DO THIS JOB?

>> I WASN'T PLANNING ON DOING IT.

I GOT A CALL FROM A FRIEND OF MINE IN LATE OCTOBER OF THE LAST YEAR OF MY TERM, WHICH WOULD BASICALLY BE 60 DAYS BEFORE IT WAS OVER, WHO SAID THAT HE HAD BEEN ASKED ABOUT CANDIDATES FOR THE PRESIDENT OF THE NCAA AND HE THOUGHT OF ME.

I SORT OF LAUGHED.

I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY.

BUT, HE SAID, LOOK, THEY ARE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE IN COLLEGE SPORTS, WHICH I HAVE, AND THEY WANTED SOMEBODY WHO COULD WORK IN A REALLY COMPLICATED DECISION-MAKING MODEL.

AND, THE NCAA HAS 180 COMMITTEES.

THEY COVER EVERY TOPIC YOU CAN THINK OF AND THERE ARE LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE MEMBERSHIP WE SERVE ON THESE COMMITTEES TO MAKE DECISIONS AND ALSO IT IS IN SORT OF A TURBULENT TIME, AS I'M SURE YOU AND I WILL TALK ABOUT.

LOOK, I REALLY BENEFITED FROM MY EXPERIENCE PLAYING BASKETBALL AT HARVARD.

IN FACT, I TELL PEOPLE ALL THE TIME IT WAS A PLACE WHERE I REALLY FELT LIKE I BELONGED.

FINDING YOUR COMMUNITY REALLY MATTERS.

THAT WAS MINE.

I REALLY DO BELIEVE COLLEGE SPORTS IS ABOUT A LOT MORE THAN JUST PLAYING A GAME.

YOU LEARN A LOT ABOUT HOW TO BE A TEAMMATE, HOW TO DO THE GRIND, HOW TO GET BACK WHEN YOU GET KNOCKED DOWN AND THE ORGANIZATION WAS CLEARLY FIXING SOME SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGES AND I'M NOT AFRAID OF DECISION- MAKING MODELS THAT ARE MESSY AND COMPLICATED BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN LIVING IN THEM FOR MOST OF MY CAREER.

>> SO, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS YOU DID WHEN YOU FIRST BECAME PRESIDENT WAS GO ON A LISTENING TOUR OF ALL OF THE CONFERENCES.

IS THERE SOMETHING YOU HEARD AT THESE, AT LEAST LISTENING TOURS THAT REALLY INFORMS YOUR THINKING ABOUT THE JOB NOW?

IS IT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU EXPECTED?

>> SO, I TALKED TO ALL 97 CONFERENCES IN MY FIRST 6 MONTHS OR SO.

I WANTED TO DO IT IN MY FIRST 100 DAYS, THAT WAS RIDICULOUS.

I THINK THE BIGGEST THING I WOULD SAY THAT CAME OUT OF THAT ONCE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THE IMPACT OF SOCIAL MEDIA ON STUDENT ATHLETES.

JUST INCREDIBLE.

THE KIDS WOULD SHOW ME A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT WAS BEING DIRECTED AT THEM.

AND, WE ACTUALLY HAVE, ON MANY OF OUR NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS, A MONITORING SERVICE TO TRACK TRAFFIC THAT IS BEING DIRECTED AT A STUDENT ATHLETES, COACHES, AND UMPIRES DURING THOSE TOURNAMENTS AND IF WE SEE PEOPLE ENGAGING IN WHAT I WOULD DESCRIBE AS A BRUTAL ACTIVITY, WE NOTIFY THE PLATFORMS AND GET THOSE PEOPLE SHUT OFF >> YOU MEAN LIKE THREATS OR HARASSING THEM IF THEY DON'T MAKE A PLAY THAT THEY WANT?

AN EXAMPLE.

>> THREATS, PEOPLE SAYING THINGS LIKE, AND THIS IS TIED UP , TO SOME EXTENT, WITH SPORTS BETTING, WHICH IS ANOTHER THING I KEPT HEARING ABOUT, WHICH WE CAN TALK MORE ABOUT, IF YOU WANT, ALL THE STUFF ABOUT I KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE, I KNOW WHAT DORM YOU ARE IN, I'M GOING TO KILL YOU.

STUFF LIKE THAT.

>> REALLY?

SPORTS BETTING, I GUESS, THERE IS A SPECIFIC WAY WHERE YOU CAN GET ON A SPECIFIC OUTCOME, NOT THE WHOLE GAME ITSELF, NOT THE SCORE BUT A SPECIFIC NUMBER OF --?

>> YOU CAN BET ON A STUDENT ATHLETE, YOU CAN BET ON WHETHER THEY TAKE THE FIRST SHOT, YOU CAN BET ON IF THEY SCORE MORE POINTS THAN THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO WORDS OR LESS POINTS.

IT IS A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE.

THANKFULLY, HALF OF THE STATES IN THE COUNTRY DON'T PERMIT PROP BETTING, WHICH IS WHAT BETTING ON AN INDIVIDUAL IS CALLED.

HALF OF THE STATES DON'T PERMIT PROP BETTING ON COLLEGE SPORTS AND COLLEGE ATHLETES.

THE OTHER HALF DO AND WE HAVE BEEN PURSUING A VARIETY OF STRATEGIES TO GET THEM OUT OF THE BUSINESS OF THE PROP BET.

YOU CAN'T REALLY SOLVE THE ISSUE OF SOMEONE BETTING ON WHETHER A TEAM WINS OR LOSES BUT I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE AS MUCH OF THE INDIVIDUAL ATTENTION BEING DIRECTED AT YOUNG PEOPLE, AND ESPECIALLY THE CHALLENGES ASSOCIATED WITH UNDERPERFORMANCE OFF THE TABLE.

I CAN TELL YOU A LOT OF KIDS COME UP TO ME AND SAY THAT THEY ARE GETTING PRESSURED BY THEIR CLASSMATES, THEIR SCHOOLMATES, THEIR FRIENDS TOOL NOT DO WELL IN A GAME OR TO NOT TAKE THE FIRST SHOT OR TWO MISSED THEIR FIRST FREE THROW OR DON'T CATCH THE FIRST PASS, OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE BECAUSE THAT IS A WAY THAT A STUDENT ATHLETES CAN HELP THOSE, THEIR FRIENDS IN MANY CASES, MAKE MONEY.

>> SO, MONEY.

WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT OF MONEY.

THAT IS ONE OF THE HUGE CHANGES IN COLLEGE SPORTS IN A VERY RECENT TIME.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN RECENT YEARS IS THAT STUDENTS CAN GET PAID FOR THEIR NAME, IMAGE, AND LIKENESS.

YOU SUPPORT THAT.

SAY WHY.

>> I DO.

I THINK A LOOK, IF YOU ARE, THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS YOU CAN DO AS A YOUNG PERSON WHERE YOU CAN GET PAID FOR YOUR NAME, IMAGE, AND LIKENESS.

YOU CAN BE IN FASHION, YOU CAN BE A MUSICIAN, YOU CAN BE A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT THINGS AND THERE WILL BE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WILL PAY YOU FOR THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE 3 MILLION FOLLOWERS ON TIKTOK OR YOU HAVE 5 MILLION FOLLOWERS ON INSTAGRAM .

I DON'T SEE ANY REASON WHY STUDENT ATHLETES, WHOSE NAME, IMAGE, AND LIKENESS HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE SUCCESS OF A LOT OF COLLEGE SPORTS PROGRAMS, AND THIS DATES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE ED O'BANNON LAWSUIT MANY, MANY YEARS AGO, THEY SHOULD BE REIMBURSED FOR THAT.

I WAS THE FIRST NCAA PRESIDENT TO PUT A PROPOSAL OUT THERE ABOUT HOW WE MIGHT DO THAT, ABOUT SIX MONTHS AFTER I GOT THE JOB.

>> ONE OF THE POINTS THE STUDENTS MADE, ED O'BANNON AND OTHER ATHLETES MEET IS THE INSTITUTIONS MAKE A LOT OF MONEY OFF THEIR NAME, IMAGE, AND LICENSE.

THEY SELL THE JERSEYS, SOME DAYS THEY WILL SIGN THE POSTERS.

COACHES MADE A LOT OF MONEY.

WHY DO YOU THINK THERE WAS SO MUCH RESISTANCE TO THAT IDEA?

>> TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.

I THINK THAT THE SETTLEMENT WE ARE TRYING TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE NUMBER OF PLAINTIFFS AROUND THESE ISSUES, WHICH WOULD MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR MANY DIVISION I SCHOOLS, WHICH IS REALLY WHERE THE ACTION IS ON THIS, MOST PEOPLE KNOW THAT VISION TO AND DIVISION III SCHOOLS DON'T MAKE MONEY ON SPORTS AND SPORTS IS AN INVESTMENT THE SCHOOLS MAKING THE STUDENTS.

I THINK FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, I DO THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE KIDS, THE STUDENT ATHLETES TO BENEFIT FROM THEIR NAME, IMAGE, AND LIKENESS AND I'M HOPING WE CAN GET THIS SETTLEMENT APPROVED SO WE CAN PUT IT INTO PRACTICE UNDER A LEGAL FORMAT THAT WOULD BE ASSOCIATED WITH THE INJUNCTION WE ARE TRYING TO SEEK.

>> IT WOULD ALLOW THE SCHOOLS TO PAY THEIR ATHLETES DIRECTLY.

>> THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO PURCHASE THEIR STUDENT ATHLETES NAME, IMAGE, AND LIKENESS RIGHTS UP TO 22.5% OF THE ATHLETIC BUDGETS OF THE TOP 60 SCHOOLS, THE POWER SCHOOLS, SO CALLED.

THAT IS ABOUT $20 MILLION PER SCHOOL PER YEAR.

IF YOU ADD IT ALL UP, IT IS PROBABLY ABOUT $1 BILLION IN POTENTIAL NAME, IMAGE, AND LIKENESS REVENUES GOING TO STUDENT ATHLETES.

>> I SAW AN ANALYSIS OF THIS PAST YEAR'S TOP THREE AND 28 EARNERS.

OF THE TOP FIVE IN ALL BUT ONE ARE WHITE, ALL BUT ONE ARE MALE, ALL BUT ONE, FOOTBALL AND BASKETBALL.

IS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THAT THAT WORRIED YOU?

>> THE BIGGEST PROBLEM I HAVE WITH EVERYTHING THAT IS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW IS YOU CAN'T BELIEVE ANY OF IT.

LITERALLY, YOU CAN'T BELIEVE ANY OF IT.

>> WE DON'T REALLY KNOW?

WE DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW MUCH THEY ARE MAKING?

>> NO ONE KNOWS.

I DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING ANYBODY SAYS ABOUT NIL BECAUSE EVERYBODY LIES, OKAY?

ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT -- >> AND IN WHICH DIRECTION, HOW MUCH OR HOW LITTLE THEY ARE GETTING?

IT IS ALWAYS MORE?

MY INSTINCT WOULD BE TO GO THE OTHER WAY BUT THAT IS JUST ME.

BUT, ANYWAY.

I WILL TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT THAT IS IMPORTANT, FOR FANS AND I THINK FOR STUDENT ATHLETES AND FAMILIES AND SCHOOLS AND EVERYBODY ELSE, IS WE ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE TWO REPORTING SYSTEMS.

THERE WILL BE ONE FOR THE SCHOOL-BASED NIL AND ONE FOR THIRD-PARTY NIL.

EVERY DEAL IS GOING TO HAVE TO GET APPROVED GOING TO THAT SYSTEM.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE WILL HAVE FOR THE FIRST TIME IS THE ABILITY TO AGGREGATE SOME OF THAT DATA AND TO SAY, THIS IS WHAT STUDENT ATHLETES WHO PAY THESE POSITIONS WERE GETTING IN SCHOOL-BASED NIL AND THIS IS WHAT ATHLETES PLAYING THESE POSITIONS ON THE THIRD-PARTY NIL WERE GETTING AND WE WILL FINALLY HAVE REAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS LIKE , WHAT ARE THE POSITIONS WHERE PEOPLE SEEM TO GET THE MOST AMOUNT OF MONEY AND WHAT ARE THE SPORTS THEY ARE PLAYING AND HOW MUCH OF THIS IS MEN AND HOW MUCH IS WOMEN?

NO, NOBODY REALLY KNOWS WHAT IS ACTUALLY BEING DONE.

I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE GREAT TRAGEDIES OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM, THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NO RULES MEANS STUDENT ATHLETES LITERALLY DON'T KNOW WHO TO BELIEVE ABOUT MUCH OF ANYTHING, WHICH IS A SHAME >> AND TAKE YOUR POINT BUT ANOTHER MAJOR SHIFT THAT WE DO KNOW ABOUT IS THE NCAA, IT HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED, WOULD NOT DIRECTLY OVERSEE THESE NEW PAYROLLS.

THE BIG DIVISION I SCHOOLS THAT ARE UNDERSTOOD TO BE WITH THE MOST REVENUE IS, THEY TEND TO BE THE PIPELINE TO THE PROFESSIONAL LEAGUES, THEY WOULD TAKE ON ENFORCEMENT THROUGH THIS NEW BODY CALLED THE COLLEGE SPORTS COMMISSION.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

WHY DO YOU SUPPORT THIS CHANGE THAT WOULD SEEM TO DIMINISH THE ROLE OF THE NCAA IN SETTING RULES, CAN YOU SAY MORE ABOUT THAT?

>> KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS THING IS PART OF A SETTLEMENT.

THE NCAA MOTHER POWER CONFERENCES, THE FIVE POWER CONFERENCES, SEC, PAC-12, BECAUSE IT WAS TO OF THE GROUP THEN, THE BIG TEN, THE BIG 12, AND THE ACC.

THAT IS WHO THE PLAINTIFFS SUED, OKAY?

THEY SUED THE NCAA AND THOSE SCHOOLS BECAUSE THAT IS WHO THEY FELT WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT THEY CONSIDERED TO BE THIS INJUSTICE THAT NEEDED TO BE RIGHTED.

IN THE END, WHAT THEY WANTED WAS FOR THE NCAA TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR BACK DAMAGES TO WHICH AND OUR MEMBERS, WHICH WE ARE GOING TO PAY $2.86 BILLION TO HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF FORMER STUDENT ATHLETES UNDER THIS NEGOTIATION, 285 MILLION A YEAR FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS, AND THEY WANTED THE POWER SCHOOLS OWN THE OBLIGATION AND RESPONSIBILITY FOR SETTING UP AND RUNNING THE NEW SYSTEM SO THAT THEY COULD KEEP AN EYE ON IT, THE PLAINTIFFS COULD KEEP AN EYE ON IT AND A SPECIAL MASTER FROM THE COURT COULD KEEP AN EYE ON IT TO MAKE SURE IT WAS BEING IMPLEMENTED THE WAY IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE.

THE NCAA WRITES THE BYLAWS, WHICH THE MEMBERSHIP ADOPTS.

THIS IS A FEDERAL LAW, WHICH IF IT GETS APPROVED, WILL SIT INSIDE AN INJUNCTION.

UNDER THOSE SETS OF RULES, THE PLAINTIFFS WANTED THE POWER SCHOOLS TO BE FUNDAMENTALLY AND DIRECTLY ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH OVERSEEING AND MANAGING AND ENFORCING.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE THING ABOUT ABOUT THIS THAT I LIKE IS I DO BELIEVE THAT THE END OF THE DAY, AND THE COURTS DID AS WELL AND SO DID THE PLAINTIFFS, THAT A LOT OF THE ACTIVITY ASSOCIATED WITH THIS NIL PROCESS IS GOING TO COME FROM THOSE SCHOOLS, AND THEREFORE THOSE ARE THE SCHOOLS THAT THE COURTS BELIEVE AND PLAINTIFFS BELIEVED NEEDED TO BE FUNDAMENTALLY HELD MOST ACCOUNTABLE TO THE HIGHEST LEVEL, WITH RESPECT TO COMPLIANCE.

>> THEY WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE MONEY.

WHAT I'M ASKING YOU IS WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER PIECE, THE MEDICAL WELL-BEING, EMOTIONAL WELL-BEING?

>> THAT STUFF STILL BELONGS TO THE NCAA.

THE ONLY WAY TO TALK ABOUT THIS, THE MONEY PIECE WILL BE LONG INSIDE THE COURT FRAMEWORK, OVERSEEN BY THE COURTS, MONITORED BY THE PLAINTIFFS, MANAGED BY THE SO- CALLED POWER SCHOOLS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

THE OTHER STUFF, SPORTS BETTING, PLAYING RULES, HEALTH AND WELL-BEING, ALL OF THAT STUFF WILL STILL BELONG TO US ON THE NCAA SIDE, WHICH, LOOK, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS DISTRIBUTION.

MOSTLY, I WANT TO CREATE A SYSTEM THAT HAS SOME DEGREE OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND PROCESS TRANSPARENCY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE.

A LOT OF WHAT IS GOING ON IS MISREPRESENTATION, FALSE PROMISES, AND A WHOLE BUNCH OF NOT GOOD THINGS.

BECAUSE THERE IS NO DATA, RIGHT, BECAUSE THE SCHOOLS AREN'T IN THIS SPOT, THAT DON'T REALLY HAVE A RULE CURRENTLY, ABOUT A THIRD OF THE KIDS THAT GO IN THE TRANSFER PORTAL, MOST OF THEM GO THERE BECAUSE SOME THIRD PARTY TOLD THEM THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY, WE CAN'T FIND THEM.

THAT IS A BIG NUMBER OF KIDS.

>> DO YOU THINK IT IS ANY WORSE NOW THAN WHEN THERE WAS MONEY UNDER THE TABLE BEFORE?

NOT FOR EVERY SPORT AND NOT FOR EVERY SCHOOL BUT THERE HAVE BEEN ENOUGH COURT CASES, THERE HAVE BEEN ENOUGH PROSECUTIONS TO KNOW.

>> THERE IS MORE MONEY INVOLVED NOW AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REPRESENTING STUDENT ATHLETES WHO ARE CHARGING RIDICULOUS FEES FOR THE HONOR OF REPRESENTING THEM AND I THINK, AGAIN, BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE TO ANYBODY, AND THERE IS VERY LITTLE PROCESS TRANSPARENCY AT ALL, I THINK YOU HAVE AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE IT IS VERY HARD FOR A MOM AND A DAD OR A YOUNG PERSON TO KNOW WHAT IS TRUE AND I DO THINK THE SETTLEMENT, IF WE CAN GET IT APPROVED, WILL CREATE ENOUGH PROCESS TRANSPARENCY INSIDE OF THE INJUNCTION WITH A FEDERAL JUDGE LOOKING OVER IT AND THE PLAINTIFFS PENDING PAINT LAWYERS TO PAY A LOT OF ATTENTION TO IT, I THINK THAT WILL CREATE A SYSTEM THAT IS A LOT LESS LIKELY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE.

>> DO YOU SEE THE TRANSFER, THIS FRENETIC TRANSFER ACTIVITY, TO BE PART OF THAT AS WELL?

ONE DATA POINT, THE ""THE WASHINGTON POST"" CRUNCHED THE NUMBERS DURING MARCH MADNESS, THE NCAA BASKETBALL TOURNAMENT EARLIER THIS YEAR, SAID 53% OF THE MEN IN THE CONFERENCE, THE TOP CONFERENCE PLAYERS AND 40% OF THE WOMEN HAD ALL PLAYED FOR MORE THAN ONE SCHOOL.

PEOPLE LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT WAYS AND SAY COACHES LEAVE, COACHES QUIT JOBS AND GO TO OTHER JOBS.

FOR A STUDENT, IF YOU HAVE EVER TRANSFERRED SCHOOLS, YOU KNOW THAT IT CAN BE HARD TO PUT IT ALL TOGETHER, TO FIND YOUR PEOPLE, TO HAVE A QUALITY COLLEGE EXPERIENCE.

WHAT IS YOUR OPINION OF IT?

DO YOU FEEL THE LEVELS OF TRANSFERS WE ARE SEEKING IS HEALTHY AND PRODUCTIVE OR DO YOU FEEL SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DIFFERENT?

>> THE NUMBER OF COLLEGE KIDS, ACCORDING TO FEDERAL DATA, TRANSFER AT LEAST ONCE IF THEY GO TO FOUR-YEAR INSTITUTIONS, IS LIKE A THIRD.

WHEN YOU AND I WERE IN SCHOOL, NO ONE TRANSFERRED.

I THINK THAT IS IN PART BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE INFORMATION THAT THESE KIDS HAVE NOW.

THEY CAN LEARN ANYTHING THEY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT ANY SCHOOL IN AN HOUR JUST BY GETTING ON THEIR PHONE.

I THINK YOUR POINT ABOUT COACHES, THERE WERE 50 MEN'S BASKETBALL COACHES WHO TRANSFERRED, WHO CHANGED JOBS BETWEEN THE START OF MARCH MADNESS AND THE END OF MARCH MADNESS THIS PAST SPRING.

WHEN THAT MANY COACHES ARE MOVING AROUND, THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT IS GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON HOW MANY STUDENT ATHLETES MOVE AROUND.

I DO THINK PUTTING THIS MORE DIRECTLY BETWEEN SCHOOLS AND STUDENT ATHLETES WHERE SCHOOLS CAN TALK ABOUT ACADEMIC PLANS, DEVELOPMENT PLANS, AND ATHLETIC PLANS PROBABLY MEANS THAT KIDS WILL BE A LITTLE STICKIER WITH RESPECT TO WHERE THEY STAY BECAUSE THEY WILL SEE A PATH FORWARD THAT MAKES SENSE FOR THEM.

I ALSO THINK THAT, I DO THINK THAT THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE ON THIS ONE IS GOING TO BE SOME DEGREE OF TRANSPARENCY AROUND WHAT IS REAL AND WHAT IS NOT.

AS I SAID, A THIRD OF THOSE KIDS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TO END UP IN THE PORTAL IN THAT STORY IN THE POST, WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIND THEM, HAVING LANDED SOMEWHERE FOR NEXT YEAR.

THAT IS A PROBLEM.

THAT, TO ME, IS LIKE A CRISIS.

THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS I'M HOPING THE SETTLEMENT CAN HELP US DEAL WITH.

>> CHARLIE BAKER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPEAKING WITH US.

>> IT IS NICE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.